I’m gonna delve into something radical here. Let me post a few quotes first and then I’ll explain…
Example one:
Catholic mystic St. Teresa (1515-1582) basically describes the spiritual gift of words of knowledge that she often received in prayer as “…very distinctly formed, but by the bodily ear they are not heard. They are, however, much more clearly understood than if they were heard by the ear.”
Crossreference Jane Roberts, a classic New Age trance channeler, who described a similar experience in 1963: “…a fantastic avalanche of radical, new ideas burst into my head with tremendous force…I felt as if knowledge was being implanted in the very cells of my body so that I couldn’t forget it – a gut knowing, a biological spirituality. It was feeling and knowing, rather than intellectual knowledge.”
Example two:
Gottfried Arnold (1666-1714) described a life of union with God where believers became a participant in the nature of God. Along with ecstatic experiences including spiritual gifts, “He who has reached this high grade of love …will be overcome and almost drunken, indeed, swallowed up” in the presence of God.
Spiritualist James Martin Peebles wrote revivalist Dwight Moody in a letter concerning the similarities between Spiritualism and Moody’s proto-Pentecostal beliefs in experience: “Yes, my brother, with you I want to see a revival of religion, a return to Pentecostal times, a return to that Christianity which gladdened and glorified the first three centuries after Christ.” Peebles glibly suggested a joint revival circuit with Pentecostals and Spiritualist mediums displaying the power of God together: “…what a power, what a mighty power, under the good providence of God, we should be evangelizing the world.” To Peebles, the Pentecostal experience merely confirmed his own views.
Example three:
A Methodist parishioner, after participating in a Mesmeric trance, was described by an observer: “…she appeared to be in a state of ecstatic joy, when she grasped [the Mesmerists] hand and said: ‘O, Brother Sunderland, this is the happiest state I was ever in. It is heaven…Yes, Brother Sunderland, and this is the same heaven – the same as when my soul was converted and filled with the love of God.’” The Mesmerist was also a Methodist minister.
Theologian Harvey Cox recounts attending a Pentecostal service in Boston. After an inspiring time of worship, singing and dancing, the minister praised the presence of the Holy Spirit with these words: “Yes, this is the way it ought to be. Yes. This is the way it’s going to be in heaven. Yes, and we don’t have to wait for heaven because here at Holy Tabernacle tonight this is the way it is now.”
Okay, I’m sure you can see the similarities here. I pulled just a few quotes from hundreds to give an idea of just how similar experiences felt in Christian and alternative religious groups are. Now don’t freak out, just listen. Christians have always had a tendency to reject all such occult experiences as counterfeit and demonic. Modern occultists although valuing the role of experience, usually assign it to the fringes of the unconscious mind. But what if our spiritual history, full of countless examples of people chasing experience, were saying the same thing?
Pentecostalism and Roman Catholicism are the largest Christian groups in the world. Why do you think that is? Pentecostalism is 500 million strong – bigger than all other denominations combined. I think it’s because of their willingness to value experience and the supernatural. Similarly, why do you think Wicca and the New Age movement are so big? Same reason – they value personal experience and the supernatural.
I am a Pentecostal (don’t laugh – you’re the minority, not me) and proud that my Christian heritage includes the quotes of the Christians above. You may have Martin Luther, but we have Tertullian, Symeon the New Theologian, Bernard of Clairvaux (and a host of other mystics), Jacob Boehme, Valentin Weigel, the Pietists, and Horace Bushnell. But I also deeply sympathize with the quotes of occultists above who were disillusioned by the Christianity of their youth and went elsewhere to find spiritual experience. As a Christian, though I feel occultists are misdirected, I also believe their innate desire to seek out spiritual experience is dead on. That’s why they supplemented their formal religion with, say, Spiritualism. They are looking for the level of spiritual vitality that has made Pentecostalism the largest Protestant grouping in the entire world.
There’s a trend in Christian ecumenical circles nowadays: embrace Pentecostalism but relegate spiritual gifts to soteriological functions. Unfortunately, the trend is catching on since people like contemporary music but think spiritual gifts are freaky. Listen up ecumenists – you are destroying the single most important bridge to evangelize other religious groups. Pentecostalism has spread because of its power, not its ritual. You should be bending over backwards to accommodate individual experience in the church, not dismissing it as self-indulgent or immature. Individual experience is what anchors people to the faith. If you remove it from Christianity, you create an environment for people to go searching elsewhere for what you have minimized for the sake of achieving doctrinal consensus.
So what are occultists and others looking for? The same thing Christians are looking for. I think they are looking for the power of the Holy Spirit. In this way, Christians and occultists are the same. All of us are internally “wired” to seek after an experience (praxis) that accompanies our faith (dogma). To deny that experiential element is to reject part of what makes religion effective – a point of spiritual connection that bridges a pathway towards relationship with God.
I read an article recently on the similarities among all faiths with “light” experiences. I would agree with your thoughts on pentecostalism, but it is not American pentecostalism that is growing. The church in the west is dying. The Pentecostal movements are really picking up steam in South America and Africa–this is where Christianity seems to be moving and we would be quick to pay attention.
“Test the spirits wheter they are from God….” This verse in the first letter of John indicates :
1) there are more than one spirit
2) there are spirits NOT from God
3)the spirits can not be known without test
John explains , how to test the spirits.
I was never a member of a pentecostal church but I spent some times there. I saw a lot of people receiving spirits or manifesting spirits, but I never heard about testing spirits. Whatever feels good must be from God, this is the way the pentecostal accept every spirit. If the occult spirits give you the same feelings, they must be from the same source, spirits Not from God.
Following Jesus is not about spiritual experiences, receiving the spirit must be something else.
As I witnessed pentecostals speaking in “tongues , slained in the spirit, rolling on the floor, uncontrollably laughing, while blasphemies were uttered and satan was spoken to, I am absolutely sure, all the newage and pentecostal spiritual experiences are definitely not from God, despite their pretendance to be so.
coldfire:
You are absolutely right. Pentecostalism has had a much greater impact in cultures where Enlightenment worldviews have not influenced the belief in the superntural so greatly. Like this stat:
In Africa, around 5,000 independent Pentecostal churches have been established within the last 100 years. These churches account for forty percent of the black population of South Africa and fifty percent of the Christians in Zimbabwe.
However, look at these stats for Western oriented growth:
-In the United Kingdom, between 1985 and 1990, Baptist, Methodist, Presbyterians, Anglicans and Roman Catholics have lost upwards of ten percent of their membership. By way of comparison, independent charismatic churches gained nearly thirty percent during the same five year period.
-From 1976 through 1981, Australian growth rates for some standard denominations decreased anywhere from ten to twenty-four percent while Pentecostal churches grew a whopping 385 percent.
-In New Zealand from 1971 to 1981, traditional churches held their ground or decreased as much as nineteen percent while Pentecostal groups surged 150 percent.
For this reason I chose quotes from individuals from Western cultures. The Christians went outside ecclesiastical sanction to find the Spirit. The occultists abandoned Christianity altogether in order to find spiritual power. I think they are looking for the same thing. If Christians can show spiritual power to an occultist, they have a better chance of explaining their faith and “undoing” some of the damage that the church might have caused them in early years.
Thanks for reading…
arabella:
I understand your concern over my comments and commend you on your knowledge of scripture. Like you, I believe in the demonic and its ability to conterfeit the supernatural. However, I must disagree with your approach to Pentecostalism. I am sorry for the expereinces that may have turned you off to it – there are plenty of fruit loops out there.
However, to dismiss charismatic manifestations as demonic is not acceptable either. Abuse of something does not invalidate its merit. What if we put it in an acceptable evangelical format: if you see someone skipping out on church, does that mean that the verse that says we should “not forsake the assembling of ourselves” is now invalid? Of course not – it just means that person is disobedient. Same with those who do not read their Bible – that doesn’t invalidate the Bible as Word of God.
Can spiritual manifestations from God be counterfeited? Sure they can – the verse you quoted to me implies that. But it ALSO implies that counterfeits are imitations of something authentic – in this case authentic spiritual gifts. This includes imitations that may give you the “same feelings.”
Your line of reasoning is the cause of the occult quotes above. Well meaning Christians in an effort to quell abuse have insisted that charismatic gifts have passed away. So, those looking for spiritual power throughout history have assumed that you were right and went somewhere else. What did you expect them to do?
Honestly in the postmodern environment, such an argument no longer is considered valid. I hope this spurs you on to study that possiblity of spiritual gifts in the modern age. Spiritual gifts don’t make one Christian any better than another…but they sure do make Christinaity that much more fulfilling
Please be curious enough to search some more…
If I give you forged money, it would look like and work like genuine money, you could buy you some nice things (good fruits) and as long as nobody tests the forged bills ,you will feel lucky for the benefits of it. But what, if it is tested and proven false ?
In my country , Austria, if you use forged money even innocent you are criminal.
It is the same in the Kingdom. We have to test – for since the creation of the world
God`s invisible qualities- his eternal power and divine nature – have been clearly seen,
being understood, so that men are without excuse (Rom, 1,20)
Therefore test the spirits.
Recommanded authors : A.E. Ruark, Gerald McGraw, W.l.Leod, K.Neill Foster, Alexander Seibel
arabella:
Once again, thanks fo your comments. I understand your concern over testing the spirits. However, I’m not exactly sure what you believe constitutes testing them. The Bible, your doctrinal preference, or your own opinion on the subject?
If I’m reading your comments correctly, you believe the testing is found in God’s “eternal power and divine nature” since they “have been clearly seen.” That’s fine but my question becomes: how are the qualities of God clearly seen? In natural events of providence like a sunrise or a tsunami? Or in the hidden events of life? Those type of beliefs come from Stoic influence on early Christian theology. Check out Augustine’s use of “seminal reasons.” Now, there’s a spirit to test…
I believe the God of the Bible is deeply involved in human affairs and he chooses ways of creating divine encounter that are most meaningful to those Christians who love and follow him. In light of this, here’s my second question: if the power of God can be clearly seen, why wouldn’t God express that power in such a way as to deeply impact the spiritual experience of a believer, say, through spiritual gifts? If a believer responds to those giftings, don’t you agree that God would make them available for his children? I do. and if he would, wh ywould you exclude them? Do you know something I don’t know?
Truth of the matter is, we already think we know how God will interact with us because we already think we have an idea of what qualities he consists of. Early theologians called this “Dignum Deo.” But honesty God interacts with us in ways that show his deep personal understanding of us and our individual preferences. That includes his giving of spiritual gifts for those who will receive them. Counterfeits don’t negate this, their presence actually confirms it. Developing a criteria that dismisses spiritual experience is not the best route to take.
Thanks for the recommended authors – I ‘ll check them out.
Dear Sam,
you seem to misunderstand me.
Forged money is produced in order to deceive and steal. False spirits simply do the same. Getting money without merit or honest work versus receiving the spirit by avoiding God`s conditions.
I quoted Rom 1 to show that we do not have an excuse if we were deceived.
I believe in spiritual gifts and have received several at several times, never according to my preferences but in each case to be able to speak the word of God, to confirm the truth by healing, to convince an unbeliever through the divine power…
The gifts are not my property and I am accountable how to use them.
1 Thess.5,21 2Cor 13,5 Gal 6,4
What are you afraid of? To be proven false ? To have an idol-doctrin destroyed?
arabela:
I believe you are absolutely right – sorry if I misunderstood you. The point of my post is simply this. If the church denies spiritual experience to the average believer, they will look for it in other places – St. Teresa, Gorrfied Arnold, Dwight Moody, and the Pentecostal movement represent this trend. But what’s more, if the church denies the possiblity of spiritual experience, oftentimes people will search outside the bounds of Christianity in hopes of finding that power. Channeler Jane Roberts, Spiritualist James Peebles, and the Methodist woman into Mesmerism respresent this group. Of course I don’t believe, as an evangelical Christian, that the spiritual influence assocaited with this last group is godly. It’s obviously deminoic. However, I do lay the blame for not answering their quest for spiritual experience at the feet of the church. That’s my point – not who’s demonic and who’s not – but rather what can Christians do to satisfy that innate hunger. I believe spiritual gifts are the biblical strategy for such seekers.
Thanks for your interest in this post – once again, your use of scripture is to be commended.
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This gives information on testing the spirits.
http://www.kneillfoster.com/articles/Glossolalia.html
Donna –
Thanks for your link – I checked it out and read Foster’s methodology for “testing” the spirits. Unfortunately though rational methods work for some topics, I don’t believe this is one of them. Of course the Bible says to test the spirits, but I wonder if the writer of 1 John meant Ruark’s post-enlightement form of empirical methodology. I highly doubt it. Therefore to use that scripture to justify this form of “testing” is to read our Western understandings into the original text.
Furthermore, I find it difficult to believe that after using this methodology, only 10% of those believing they had received the gift of tongues were legitimate while all others were demonic. The proof is in the pudding, so to speak. If he had said 50-50, I might consider the possiblity, but honestly, that grossly underestimates the spiritual experience of millions of mature, fruit-bearing Christians. That type of restriction of spiritual experience is exactly what causes well-meaning seekers to shy away from the church – a church that should be embracing and gently directing the experiences of others. Ruark’s methodology simply tells them they are false in their belief. So, alienated by the church, they turn to New Age or Zen Buddhism to find what they were told was demonic.
Foster may not possess the openness in dealing with people in this way. I pray that the church can embrace others in their moments of misdirection and confusion rather than reject them as false and demonic out of fear. As a pastor, I must believe God meets us where we are.
Again, thanks for the link.
Sam
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